Tuesday, January 22, 2008

EU Vote - Parliament's Night of Shame

North Thanet's Conservative MP, Roger Gale, has this morning described as "Parliament's night of shame" last night's vote to give the bill that would enshrine the European Constitutional Treaty in law.

Speaking at the House of Commons the MP, who after the vote presented to the House a petition from Kent constituents calling for a referendum, said:

"Every major political party - Labour, Liberal and Conservative - promised at the last General Election to give the electorate the right to vote in a referendum on the European Constitution. Last night we heard weasel words from Foreign Secretary Militant during his attempt, in the Prime Minister's noticeable absence, to justify the unjustifiable. This was parliamentary dishonesty on a scale that I have never previously witnessed and it can only have damaged the standing of what passes for democracy in the United Kingdom.

Over and over again it was demonstrated during the debate that the Lisbon Treaty signed by Gordon Brown is the previous constitution with only cosmetic changes. All of the substance that would create a European Foreign Minister, give the European President a much longer term in office and introduce greater majority voting remain on the table. Those of Kent's MPs who voted to support this further move towards a Federal European "Super-State" are guilty of a monumental breach of trust and will have to be held to account for that at the next General Election - whether Brown calls it this year, in 2009 or 2010.

We shall now target our efforts on securing a vote on an amendment to the bill to introduce the referendum that we know that the people of the United Kingdom want and it will be interesting to see whether those MPs who supported the second reading will, in that vote, have the honesty to recognise the pledge that they gave in 2005 and support us."


Anonymous said...

I wonder why you are ignoring the growing concern that is springing up about the terrible mess made of Culmers Field in Broadstairs?

Why do you not think that this matter is worthy of discussion on this site?

DrMoores said...

How do you measure growing concern? A single email and three comments?

I made my point in the earlier thread. If it expands into more than a planning complaint over the size of the fence,then it may be worth re-visiting but at present most of the answers appear to be there from what I can see from the comemnts to date!

Michael Child said...

I find now that many of my European friends and customers who broadly support a common market across Europe, are becoming more and more, Europeans united against many of the recent advances of the EU.

The steady drift into having our lives regulated by European bureaucrats seem to have run through successive governments of both political parties, with no idea where to draw the line.

One big problem being, the larger the geographical area governed by one organisation the less difference the individuals vote makes, so that although we have in Europe something we call democracy, what we have is something quite different, where in many cases a disproportionate amount of power goes to organisations big enough and wealthy enough to be able to lobby effectively to their own ends.

European legislation has become a total joke for anyone who has to deal with it, for example, at the moment in Ramsgate I am taking an interest in the huge civil engineering task of repairing the eastcliff façade, the engineers involved will be forced break the law on two counts that I know of, probably more. This is because EU legislation for both scaffolding and concrete is completely unworkable in any safe and sane way, this means that we then produce British standards based on this legislation that are impossible to implement.

What I, and I think many others are looking for is one of the main political parties producing a comprehensive scheme for dealing with the EU both in terms of how we relate to it as a country and as individuals. One would have thought that just considering the impact that UKIP may have on the next general election would be sufficient incentive.

So perhaps if there is a referendum about Europe we could be asked more than one question, I hate to admit this but I am too ignorant about the whole subject to know what the options could be.

Tony Beachcomber said...

Supposing by 2010 the treaty has had no real impact on our lives and things with europe are pretty good.Then the case for a referendum would look pretty weak. That is unless the people pushing for a referendum do not want us to be part of europe in the first place.

Cllr David Green said...

I personally think that referendums are a way of weakening Parliament and getting round parliamentary authority in regard to key issues of this kind. I have never accepted that they should be the way forward. For example, Should parliament vote that it is in favour of the Bill and of the treaty and we were then to hold a kind of organised opinion poll in which the right-wing press would seek to achieve the result that it wanted, and if ratification of the treaty were defeated, would MP’s all be expected to come back to the House and vote against their judgment of the national interest in line with the result of the referendum? Its not going to happen is it?
Blair only agreed to a referendum because he was forced into it by Murdoch. So, here is the problem. Fast forward three or four years. David Cameron is Prime Minister. He (rather stupidly) agrees to a referendum as part of the Tory manifesto. The referendum is held. The population vote against the EU Treaty which was signed three years previously.
What then?
We know what Roger Gale wants. We know that Gordon Brown wants. We know what Nick Clegg wants. We have no idea what David Cameron wants. Politics abhors a vacuum, and if he's not careful that vacuum will be filled by Bill Cash,Roger Gale and Nigel Farage.

DrMoores said...

I wonder, David, if you could find a dozen people in your ward, within the space of a sixty minute walk, who would support what happened last night and held a Labour rather than Conservative view of Europe. If you could, I would be surprised

Michael Child said...

David this is about parliament negating the power of parliament, too long in office too many broken promises, they are in affect saying that they no longer can manage the constitutional responsibility so are giving it away for future parliaments and the judiciary. Gone forever will be English law based on president and we will forever have a President. Why not go the whole hog and decapitate the monarch like last time, “Lord Protector of Europe?”

Under EC directive 92/58 it is a criminal offence to display any sign reading 'Fire Exit', unless the design also carries a 'Europictogram' of a running man.

Ken Gregory said...

I cannot believe that anyone would oppose a referendum on a matter as important as the EC.
I voted back in the 70's for a european economic union, not a political union.

Lets have the vote now, vote for economic union, and against political union.

But It would be interesting to see Brown having to 'suck up' to Blair as EU president. (presumably he would be saying.'let me have your job before I get voted out by the British electorate'

Michael Child said...

Ken good to be in total agreement with you, pity about the big C growing their own dope Mr C

Laura Sandys said...

Will Ladyman Back a Referendum?

Last night he voted with the Government taking the treaty that bit closer to be enacted. However he has the opportunity to keep his manifesto promise – on which he was elected by only 600 votes – to vote for a referendum in the next few weeks. “ says Laura. “the issue is not whether he is pro or against the treaty – it is that in 2005 he put himself to the people of South Thanet and promised that they would get a referendum on a constitution. When every European leader, every Parliamentary committee and every European expert states that this “treaty” is the same as the constitution he must not undermine the integrity of politics and Parliamentarians by breaking this promise.

I call on him and his Kent Labour colleagues to do what is right and to help restore some credibility to their Government.”

Anonymous said...


How about check out the Magna Carta Society types on internet ? And lay a Common Law Information against Dr Ladyman (Treason Law)and Gordon Brown.

They have acted against the unrepealable Common Law of our land after all.

There shall be but one law. That of the Realm. There shall be but one fount of Justice in Mercy ... HM the Q. Justice is administered under Crown Authority independent of Parliament. Parliament legislates but our only law is that by Royal Assent.

The Queen does not have the authority to sign over her powers against the wishes of the people.

But there again an office under the Crown is held conditional that the office holder defends the culture, rights and liberties of the people. The multicultural experiment, for example (now admitted to having failed, was of course unlawful anyway.

Alternatively you could contact a number of hereditary peers, report Brown's treason to them and that if it goes ahead that the Crown would have been drawn into offending against the people. Demand immediate remedy of the Queen on pain of lawful rebellion.

That should concentrate police minds.

The Armed Services would rally to the Crown.

But the police have spent decades tugging their forelocks unlawfully to the Home Office.

Let's have a civil war.

Anonymous said...

Why don't all those that are demanding an EU Referendum make their point clearly and resign ? If local elections are called all over the country it would send a clear message to Gordon Brown. How about it Roger Gale, do you feel strongly enough about this to resign your seat ? You said yourself that "This was parliamentary dishonesty on a scale that I have never previously witnessed and it can only have damaged the standing of what passes for democracy in the United Kingdom." Nows the time to stand up and be counted !

Anonymous said...

Some comment has been made that it is possible some people's wish and intention is to come out of the EU totally. It's true some people do wish this. This is fact also in Germany (who have wished for a federal state for maybe 100 years +), France, Italy, Spain and many other countries within the EU. This view is not only made obvious by the older generation but also the younger generation of all nationalities within the EU. I know this for fact because since we have been in the EU I have received many 100's of students from most European Countries both young( 18 upwards) up to middle age (50+). Perhaps this is what frightens Mr Brown. The fact that throughthe grass roots the message is getting through to him that the majority of the lay people and some professional people are against the EC & EU.

Our MP's are put in place by us the public therefore unless we write/petition our MP and voice our opposition to the old/new European Constitutional Treaty the MP's will vote as they wish. Because I voiced my own opinion to my months ago my MP forwarded a form for me to duplicate and pass onto others to sign and return. From this the MP could gage the mood of the constituents. If you just leave it to the person next door who is in favour of the EC &EU the fault for the wrong decision is yours and not the MP's

As TB has now switched sides perhaps once he has complted his turn as EU president he will pass the mantle onto the Pope. You see their is an ulterior motive for everything he dose and has done. Perhaps again by passing the mantle on he hopes to be in favour and end up sitting on the right hand of....


Jeremy Jacobs said...

"Those of Kent's MPs who voted to support this further move towards a Federal European "Super-State" are guilty of a monumental breach of trust and will have to be held to account for that at the next General Election - whether Brown calls it this year, in 2009 or 2010"

Let's supposing Mr Cameron wins with a healthy majority. Do you suppose he'll repeal the 1972 European Communities Act?

Somehow I don't think so. Besides what's the point ofd a Referendum?

Simon, what John Major signed the Maastricht treaty is was an act of treachery as was traitor Heath's in 1972.

Why should the British people trust the Conservatives over Europe?

Anonymous said...

I agree with Ken Gregory. When I voted in the referendum in the 70's I voted for the euphemistically named "Common Market" which implied a trading pact. I did not vote for the implementation of another layer of government, paid for with our taxes. Incidentally, those who love to knock our civil servants should take a look at the terms and conditions of their European counterparts and their masters. They seem to do little for us as a country, and they make ours look like paupers in comparison. I submit that they are the real parasites. Jammy Dodger, Birchington

Anonymous said...

Spot on, Jammy Dodger.

Anonymous said...

There was nothing wrong with EFTA. The European Free Trade Agreement, but the control freaks in Europe are not interested in trade. They want to run Europe, but they don't want any of the nasty election/referendum nonsense. Too much chance of the peasants spoiling it for them. What I would like answered from the EU enthusiasts like councilor Green is which particular EU commissioner he voted for....oh wait they aren't elected by the people, so much for democracy. It may take some time but this whole rotten organisation will eventually fail.