Sunday, June 04, 2006

Welcome One and All

What will the impact be on Thanet when Romania and Bulgaria join the European Union next year?

Already, there is talk of a wave of immigrants, - presently barred - from one of the poorer and more lawless parts of Europe, descending on the UK with an automatic right of entry. Will a proportion of these migrants find themselves shunted away to Thanet by overworked and overloaded London authorities?

Do we have any plans to deal with such a possibility at a local level and how would we cope if it happens?

43 comments:

Anonymous said...

If the council cannot house all of the people in thanet now,it is common sense to refuse to accept any more onto the housing lists.
It might not be legal,but it is not good enough to turn up at the council offices and demand to be housed here.
Most of them will have been to other towns first,so that local authority should do the housing.

DVT

Anonymous said...

Until recently councils did not have to house any immigrants,but that seems to have changed now.

How will local council tenants react to seeing people with smaller families getting 3 bedroomed houses ahead of them.

I know of several flats that are overcrowded according to the councils own rules,but that has not stopped them moving migrants into houses,if they want to live here at least abide by the rules that govern the rest of us.

Anonymous said...

anon again!
some bloody idiots just NEVER learn, do they?
Stop it, before it starts... the only obvious answer....

tony flaig said...

I think that our government is confusing Britain of the 21st Centuary with America in the 19th.

I think it is about time we had a proper public debate on whether we want any more migrants and if so do we want them to integrate, or have we got keep this nonsence of embracing foreign culture, personally I dont even like Guinness let alone the Londonistan Utophia that our leaders are so ignorant of.

There is nothing to object in showing respect to various cultures, but I prefer to live in a christian country although a non beliver.

Nethercourt said...

Rule One..... When in Rome, do as Rome does.
It's about time the adage was enforced in my opinion. You want our system, you integrate properly.

Anonymous said...

I was up in Cliftonville this morning just off Northdown Rd and for the first time I noticed I was the only ethnically British appearing person there.
I could hear only foreign languages being spoken, well shouted actually apart from one 7 or 8 year old kid who kept telling his playmates to **** *** in English. They all thought it was pretty funny to hear him screaming this phrase.
At least he'll fit in with the English youths in the area, so there is some hope for integration.

Anonymous said...

I don't know what you are all complaining about. Your local council is in the process of approving enough employment for 500 eastern european "semi-skilled operatives, packing and harvesting" tomatoes in Birchington. It says so in the TDC planning report. Accomodation won't be a problem either. There are plenty of old hotels in Cliftonville with room for loads of grotty old caravans in their back passages. Council seem to be encouraging that form of development as well. So it's all sorted then!!

Anonymous said...

Anon 11.15, I don't think TDC are encoraging caravans in back gardens,they are just totally ineffective legally and not motivated.
I can see these caravans which have been in the news out of my back windows, oddly I never see anyone coming or going,. They are somewhat screened from view but it seems very quiet.
To be honest I never even saw them come or noticed them for a few months till I read about it.

Harold Road Cliftonville is becoming a new hot spot for migrants, the old Edgewater Hotel near the top of the road was expensively converted into quite expensive flats and now has what seems to be a large number of Romas living there.
I don't know how the landlords make their money from the rent, they must have special arrangements for these people which pays more than I get in Housing Benefit for my tenants. These flats are over £110 per week.The most I can get is £85.

The other exhotels opposite are also full of migrants, mainly of African origin, its pretty cosmopolitan up there at the moment and there is a lot of street life for want of a better phrase, with lots of them milling about generally. I expect their rooms are pretty small and they want to get some fresh air and socialise.

The old locals in Harold Rd are pretty deprecating about it and quite a few are moving away thus freeing up more flats for migrants.
I think Harold Rd is becoming a ghetto pretty fast.

If anyone complains about this publicly of course they will be accused, maybe rightly, of being a racist.

Anonymous said...

Any truth in the rumour that Europe's largest mosque has been given the go ahead with no hold ups and plenty of grants as part of the 'Olympic village' in east London?

Anonymous said...

Anon 8.52 - this sounds extremely likely, after all we have to make sure that Muslims have a place to worship without it being inconvenient.
I wonder if the Olympic organisers will be also building a Methodist Church, Baptist Church, Catholic Church etc etc?
As we Christians have different churches for different sects such as those I mentioned I wonder whether one mosque would be enough?
Maybe each different variety of Islamic religion will need a different mosque?
I keep hearing about violence between Shiite and Sunni for example. Can they worship in one place?
Surely it would be the right thing to do to spend lots more and build a few mosques, not restrict them to one, that would be discrimination and probably against their human rights, can't be allowed to happen in Blair's Kingdom.

Latest Blair joke - His Toniness has been visiting the Pope and takes a boat ride with him. The Pope's hat blows off into the water.
Tony says "Don't panic" and calmly steps out of the boat and retrieves the hat, walking on the water to do so.

Moral of this story - apart from Tony thinking he is a messiah ?

Tony can't swim.

By the way please don't accuse me of being anti-catholic - I was brought up one and as such feel entitled to crack the occasional harmless joke.

Come back Father Ted!

Anonymous said...

Maybe they're not building Baptist, Methodist or any Christian churches in the Olympic village because if they did, like all the other churches in this country, they will be empty 90% of the time. Whereas the Mosque will probably be full.

Anonymous said...

You are right about people being accused rightly of racism. These posts prove it.

Anonymous said...

Good to hear such Christian attitudes being expressed here.

Anonymous said...

What bothers me as much as the immoderate comments that usually attach to "immigration stories" on this site is the fact that Simon Moores, the site owner, keeps putting them on here. He can see how much hostility, ill-feeling and - yes - racism they generate yet he seems to revel in including one almost every other day. I recognise the general subject is a legitimate news item, but is it really such a dominant one? Can this really be classed as a COMMUNITY website? Or are Mr Moores' nomadic politics taking him further to the right even than the Tory Party?

Set against THIS item his story about the meal he and his wife had in a local Thai restaurant. Is immigration only acceptable if it enables the establishment of a few good eating-houses? Is it to fall to Mr Moores and a few friends to decide which are the deserving immigrants and which are not?

DrMoores said...

Start your own weblog if you don't like this one! At present you happen to be one rather annoying obsessive politically pre-occupied and anonymous voice in over 120,000

James Maskell said...

Im one of two English speakers where I live and have no trouble with the "foreigners". In fact theyve been more welcoming than the other Englishman! Of course theres a language barrier but Im willing to learn a third language. I was pretty worried moving in because of the reputation of the area compared to where I used to live, but Ive seen no trouble. I think some people need to challenge their views with regards to immigration. If you get rid of all the immigrants in this country, how will our public services be run?

Anonymous said...

Dr Moores, I am sorry that you find it annoying that I, or anyone else, challenges your views, behaviour and motivation. For you to accuse anyone of being politically obsessed when a) much of life is "political", b) you use this site day in and day out to post stories that are critical of the present Government, and make snide comments about various Labour politicians - local and national, and c) by contrast you never say anything YOURSELF that even nods at criticism of the Tory Party is rich! You are a political propagandist of the first order.

I do not share your views, but have no problem with your holding them. But I have every problem with your representing this site as a purely community venture, and one where YOU create balance. It is an indulgence for you - to promote your personal blue views. Any attempt to create a balance, to use the "satire" that you claim to use, draws howls of protest from you and waspish vindictive remarks - as tonight.

What is offensive is your apparent belief that you are cleverer than the rest of us and no-one can see through you. People can.

DrMoores said...

You don't need this website to find satirical, personal or factual attacks on Labour politicians or the government. Simply open any newspaper or watch Bremner Bird and Fortune on TV. You will simply have to accept that this government has collapsed into mire, incompetence and corruption with overwhelming evidence to support such an opinion. Have a nice day!

James Maskell said...

For great satire about Labour, have a look at this: http://labourdonotdo.com/

Anonymous said...

You are entitled to your views, Dr Moores. I would personally prefer to have this Government, or indeed any Labour Government, than the wholly untrustworthy and incompetent Party that sits on the official opposition benches. Even now, under your new Leader, the lies and deception are creeping in all over again. The latest is the public support for the Crossrail public transport initiative in London set against the recently revealed private opposition to it. This builds on the 18 years of misery many experienced under the heinous Thatcher and the lying Major. Whatever you hate about labour, you will not find solace in the alternative. And I hope you have a restful night - you appear to have got quite worked up. Oh, and love the latest post and the "wounded of Thanet" ploy! Bless.

DrMoores said...

Tell you what.. let's ask the readers to decide on what's right and what's not. You start your own weblog. I'll link to it and then you can mumble on ad infinitum about the glories of socialism. If people prefer to be lectured by such tedious rhetoric, they'll flock to you in your droves but if they prefer not, then they'll come here or to any othe rplace they wish to visit onteh web which suits their views.

Anonymous said...

Unlike you, Dr Moores, I do not presume that I am right. I do not possess that degree of personal arrogance. I have a point of view. I express it. I am not promoting the "glories of socialism". If you believe I am seeking to lecture anyone by simply offering views counter to yours, by challenging your one-sided presentation of carefully chosen political stories, by seeking to create a more balanced discussion, then I have a question for you.

What the hell are you doing every day on this site, by choosing those news stories, by being not always satirical but often waspish and offensive, and seeking to influence people around YOUR very Tory point of view? If that isn't lecturing and propagandising, then I don't know what is.

Clearly exposure is causing you some serious problems, as your language is becoming distinctly testier!

Anonymous said...

Been away for a few days and its nice to return and find our 'rabid socialist' joining in so vigorously.
The point about uncontrolled immigration is the sheer numbers involved. In 2004 the Govt predicted 14,000 would come in from the then expanded EU and over 600,000 came in. The Czech Republic is delighted to see its Roma population coming our way. More to the point, it is our poorly paid, ourpeople on council waiting lists, our people in deprived circumstances who suffer when pressure is applied by uncontrolled immigration.
Uncontrolled immigration was not a manifesto issue from this Govt and I would argue that the vast majority in this country are fed up with the way areas of this country have become foreign in language and culture. I do not accept we are a multicultural society when 94% of us are white anglo saxon protestant. The only truly multicultural society I have come across in the world was in Brazil where true racial integration was achieved by the shared Catholic religion enabling intermarriage and the unifying effect of one language. It took 200 years to occur. In Northern Ireland on the other hand, I found after 300 years that two tribes existed who were prepared to kill each other and burn each others houses down simply because they belonged to two sects of the same faith and intermarriage was a religious taboo. Sound familiar? Look around the world and see how much mayhem has and is ocurring due to multiculturism. What makes anyone think that we will be an exception to the general historical rule in this country? A rabid socialist perhaps?

Anonymous said...

"Rabid Socialist" seems such a derisive term, and I guess it is intended as being. Is the opposite a "Toxic Tory" I wonder...

Anonymous said...

Anon 10.14
I'm quite concerned at the level of venom you're displaying in your comments. Are you like this all the time? The comments really stick out because most of us don't get so aggressive. Perhaps you're not a very happy person.
I guess that because you are anonymous and by definition cannot be personally attacked in return, you can be as poisonous as you like safely. You dress it up as being balanced and concerned for the people of Thanet, but I don't think we need you to point things out for us. We can read, and why do you feel you have to? Do you think we're all stupid and only a Middle Class educated type person can balance this site so we don't get led astray? That's a bit patronising don't you think? You're quite right, we do see through things, and at the moment you are not helping your cause, which is a real shame because you have some interesting points that just get lost in the unnecessary back biting.
Cheer up!

Anonymous said...

I am sorry, but the points you make, and the way you make them, belie your attempt to be the "voice of reason". Firstly, I don't think "rabid socialist" is a term of endearment. Secondly, I think you need to look back to see where hostility starts. Thirdly, I am not presuming that anyone needs me, or anyone else, to make things plain for them. If, when I express a point of view, it is challenged in the way it has been by Dr Moores, I think I have every right to reply in kind.

If you can see that there is an unbalanced presentation of views and issues, then I'm suprised you too don't try to put across the alternative view. I can only presume you don't hold such an alternative view. Fine. But I do.

And you have no basis for your remarks about class and education.

Sorry to rock your cosy little boat.

Anonymous said...

Touched a nerve then!

Anonymous said...

Good come back - I'm smiling genuinely - but nah! Enjoy your day.

worm said...

Sorry. Am I interrupting something?

The poster who said 94% of us are White A S protestant does not get out much. Most people in this country see the inside of a church twice in their life. When they are Christened and maybe when they get married. If this constitutes "Protestant", I'll eat my hymn book.
It's amazing how racists start beating the Christian drum when Islam is mentioned. Sad really. What WOULD Jesus say?

worm said...

....or any "Johnny Foreigner" come to that.

Anonymous said...

Worm - I don't think Jesus would have said anything at the time as I don't think Islam had actually come into being when Jesus walked the Earth.
Now he might say "At least I am regarded by Muslims as one of their prophets".
AND of course he would have said it in Aramaic which was the language he spoke, AND he probably had a somewhat dusky complexion, although of course is not portrayed as such in most of the images we see.

Jesus was a bit of a Johnny Foreigner himself it would seem.

worm said...

It's good to see irony so well received.
BTW, did you mean black when you said "dusky complexion"?
Hmm. I rest my case.

Anonymous said...

Worm, are you suggesting that my comments (94% etc) are racist? If so, please read the post again and highlight any racism for me. I find it extraordinary that discussion of a serious issue in this country today is labelled racist if it hints that multiculturalism may not be such a good idea.
You cannot and never will have a 'melting pot' when different religions/sects of the same faith do not intermarry. I quite frankly have no desire to see Muslims corrupted by the poor morality in this country of ours and thus lose their faith, however, the price to be paid over the next few hundred years is a society within a society and historically there is little evidence that this is a good thing. Rwanda, Jugoslavia's break-up, Iraq, N. Ireland, Israel, Uganda, Nigeria, Ceylon, India/Pakistan; how much bloodshed do you want me to refer to in support of the argument. If we can pull it off against the odds in the UK, I for one would be delighted, but optimism should not blind us to realism.

Anonymous said...

Worm 8.45 - I didn't mean black, I think Jesus was probably more of a Mediterranean or Arab complexion, that is somewhat tanned or olive skinned.
After all he was a Jewish freedom fighter, or from the Romans point of view a rabble rousing political activist.

I wonder if the Romans regarded anyone with a skin colour darker than their own as an inferior?

I bet they did.

worm said...

I am suggesting that if you believe that 94% of the population are practicing Protestants, you are, to put it mildly, deluded. This country has been multicultural for a couple of thousand years if not longer. To say different cultures are not interacting or inter-marrying is just not true. There is no mono culture to sully. It's all in your mind!

worm said...

Anon 11.09.
Sorry I thought you were mincing words. I believe Jesus was black as I believe the races around the Mediterranean at that time had not mixed with lighter skinned races from further North. They would have been much more like the Berbers from Morocco who are much darker skinned than the present Moroccans. Yes I also think the Romans would have regarded them as inferior. Furthermore, I believe that Roman attitude has ramifications today.

Anonymous said...

Quote from Anon 11.09
"I find it extraordinary that discussion of a serious issue in this country today is labelled racist if it hints that multiculturalism may not be such a good idea."


Sorry??

DrMoores said...

The evidence of Roman citizenship by the first century AD runs rather contrary in that it was highly inclusive and arguable colour blind. Take the Roman Emperors who were not born in Rome. The Senatorial class would have undoubtedly looked down their noses at others - they always did but the nature of the military strongly emphasised the inclusive nature of being Roman

As for Jesus, Joshua or Yeshu, from Gallilee, his accent would have been akin to having a broad Geordie accent toay and this marked him and his followers out. I would disagree with "black", i.e. African.. you only have to look at the different races of on the temples of Eyyptian Kings like Ramasses III but he would have been markedly dark skinned and visibly semitic in appearance and you can see this still in travel around the region.

The subject is a long-time hobby of mine and I've travelled Israel, Jordan and Egypt on a bicycle exploring the principle historical sites.

Anonymous said...

Anon of 10.47am, worm seemed to be implying that an earlier post was racist and what i said was that to consider multiculturalism in a negative way seems to be regarded as racist.

Anonymous said...

worm, sully what? Do you deny that it is forbidden for a muslim to marry outside his faith. This country's heritage was a unifying christian faith and despite attempts by knockers to the contrary, most people identify themselves as christian still. Do you really believe the Muslim faith will asssist integration?

Anonymous said...

I believe only 3% of the population here is practising C of E, a few more % Catholic and I don't know the other sects' numbers.
However most of us (mongrel mixed race British that we already are, part Norman, part Saxon, part Roman, part Viking,part Celtic etc etc) have similar Christian-like values if you can call it that, Jewish people born and raised here have similar values to the rest of us nominal Christians, they have been here mostly for at least several generations and it is possible that the recently arrived Muslims may adopt the same values as the rest of us given time.
I just hope they don't pick some of the youth of Thanet as role models.
A worrying trend however is the increasing radicalism shown by young British born Muslim men here. They have taken this to the point of going to Muslim countries and fighting against British so-called peacekeeping forces there.
Apart from anything else this could be construed as treason and is at the very least un-British.

Anonymous said...

The danger of young radical muslims being inveigled into treachery is not only the damage to life and limb but the strain it will put on the established host population to maintain a tolerant view of their faith and the immigrant population collectively. We have seen our own nasty BNP increase support for its candidates and a thin line exists in any society between civilised behaviour and savagery. Our Govt has a duty to control immigration wisely instead of the nonsense we have seen during the past 9 years and respond to concerns expressed by the native British people if that thin line is not to be crossed.

Anonymous said...

Most of the recently arrived Muslims do have the same moral values as the rest of us.
Radicals who blow innocent people up are not Muslims.